i can't imagine how this could help but maybe a youtube channel or youtube alt could work, like maybe uploading some of the content people made and the 22chan music albums.
what's the worst that can happen at this point? i can't think of anything besides a retard then and there popping up because of it but nothing else.

In ~2018 the internet historian was making videos on 4chan history (habbo hotel raids) which got more than ten million views. More in general, 4chan had the reputation of being both terrible and brilliant, as well as the true creative force of the internet. This wasn't really the case in 2018 anymore, however, it was just three years after moot left and the whole site went to shit due to politics, so you could find plenty of nostalgic threads and encouragement to explore old 4chan culture. The reputation lured people in, then the disappointment over the absolute state of the boards pushed them towards altchans like 22chan.

I'm afraid that today 4chan's famous for the politics more than anything else, so it draws a different type of crowd. Additionally, most posters still left there have moved on and accepted how shitty it is. So I don't think that a person who enjoys creativity, wittiness and transgression is going to be attracted to 4chan, and if by some accident they found themselves there, they wouldn't stay long enough to find out about what old 4chan was capable of. So they wouldn't seek an altchan.

>What do we do?
People are not going to magically find out about 22chan out of thin air. However, we don't really have a place to advertise on, in my opinion. Other alt-chans aren't much better off, 4chan doesn't really have posters worth bringing here anymore, and when it comes to normal social media, it seems unlikely that we'd get people who fit in with the culture here.

I don't mean to sound pessimistic, but I don't really know what to do. I like to think that by posting OC and high quality posts the website becomes more worth visiting and the right people will eventually find out. We could have comics, music and more being released here anonymously, and if it were good I think that'd draw in people.

>>3531
: visibility draws the attention of highly organized (and often paid) shills and glowies with a specific agenda to shut you down if dialogue and content becomes too genuine and interesting. A recent example is Frenschan, which was intentionally bombarded with CP likely as a form of blackmail against the owners. There have been a number of other upstarts which also were shutdown in a similar manner.

Imageboards still have their use as a medium because important topics can be discussed and researched in-depth by users as a collective. Other media or alternatives have a top-down hierarchical approach, with the end user playing a minor role at best in the comments or discussion at hand.

I do think 22chan has suffered damage due its baggage. A lot of alt-chan lists state that 22chan is inactive, along with abiding by German and EU laws which may limit any number of topics of discussion.
>>3533
>I don't mean to sound pessimistic, but I don't really know what to do. I like to think that by posting OC and high quality posts the website becomes more worth visiting and the right people will eventually find out. We could have comics, music and more being released here anonymously, and if it were good I think that'd draw in people.
This is a good start. Rebranding from the 22chan name may be on the table as well.

>A recent example is Frenschan, which was intentionally bombarded with CP likely as a form of blackmail against the owners.
I am pretty sure I remember seeing a post on 4chan of someone leaking a screenshot of the admin control panel from frenschan that pointed towards it being a glow operation to begin with due to it tracking basically every single thing a user was doing on the website (e.x. opening a page, image, etc.) and putting it inside of a folder. You have to wonder just how many of these "upstarts" are glow operations to begin with.

>A lot of alt-chan lists state that 22chan is inactive, along with abiding by German and EU laws which may limit any number of topics of discussion.
What lists? I only know of the encylopediadramatica article that has not been updated in years for some reason https://edramatica.com/22chan

>>3536
>I only know of the encylopediadramatica article
It's one of the top results if you search for it, so not insignificant by that fact alone. You are correct, however, that I should have clarified by saying listed as inactive or not listed at all.
https://alternativeto.net/lists/36317/imageboards/
https://dollchan.net/chanlist/chanlist-en.html
>>3535
>I am pretty sure I remember seeing a post on 4chan of someone leaking a screenshot of the admin control panel from frenschan that pointed towards it being a glow operation to begin with due to it tracking basically every single thing a user was doing on the website (e.x. opening a page, image, etc.) and putting it inside of a folder.
It's a possibility, but I have not seen any evidence firsthand. Encyclopedia Dramatica mentions it, but threads that I've seen elsewhere on altchans and 4chan itself about the topic of frenschan shutting down (before they were deleted by mods for the latter) didn't seem to strongly suspect this. I can personally attest that many of the core resources were quite good while placing an emphasis on anti-doxxing security (Fren-Z magazine, an updated and expanded open source browser add-on to add echoes, the library itself, and so on). All of these are things which are only bad for glowies and their allies.
>You have to wonder just how many of these "upstarts" are glow operations to begin with.
Many, likely. Especially nowadays. However, we can never truly tackle this problem without popular and supported Internet alternatives anyways. Otherwise, the only 'safe' way is not to discuss things or post anything, which is clearly what everyone's governments and societies want.

What would you rename 22chan to if you had the chance.

>>3539
I'm too much of a newfag here to make that call. My suggestion would be to avoid using something with numbers in the name, as there's a massive sea of them which we are drowning in over the years. Further, it may be a good idea to use a noun, along with a central theme, spirit, and aesthetic to match. Frenschan used this successfully, as does endchan with the idea of it being a final destination. I'm sure you'll find others do as well.

I'm approaching this with fresh eyes, which may be an advantage if the strategy is to attract newcomers. It was more luck than anything that I stumbled on this place after a lot of searching after frenschan closed, 4chan turned into even worse of a shill and bot-fest this year, and other decent alt-chans are slow moving.

>>3540
New altchan name :your mother

>>3540
That's not a bad approach, 22Chan was originally supposed to be called "3chan" but the name was taken, "5chan" was also taken so "22" was chosen at random. The old 22 flag was made at random and it was replaced with something more meaningful so i can see how that can make the site more visible amd attractive then random numbers. It was a primary complaint by outsiders that 22chan was "just another altchan". Personally i wouldn't be afraid to toy with the idea with changing the name.

>>3541
Can everyone weigh in on this issue then? Changing the name of the website is probably the most major change in the site's history and it could end up CATastrophically if not handled well... I guess one thing to look at is well is the website's culture in any way attached to the 22chan name? (e.g. net characters, CATs, etc.) How much would have to change on the website if we do change it like wouldn't we need a new logo, and then get rid of all the general banners or do we make 22chan synonymous with the new name and people can refer to it both ways? I personally think considering that there are sometimes days where there isn't a new post on 22chan we have really nothing to lose this website is practically dead without the regular posters.
Do some of you even prefer to get rid of some of the culture that 22chan currently has as well? (I, for example, personally really hate the design I made for the otter-chan character and think it should be replaced with something completely else but maybe this isn't really related to the issue.)

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For those wondering about the 22chan flag:
"moving forward to a better future whist never forgetting the values of the past"
>>3542
That's why i'm saying to "toy around" a bit before doing anything drastic. (even if it takes a year) go slow and take time to see what sounds good and what works. Do a trail run for a time and if nothing works then revert back if nothing happens or if there's backlash.

I think we are kind of in a fucky situation as of late so clearly something needs to be done. Although we shouldn't force change to happen and we should keep talking and playing with things, making stuff, trying new ideas, and we'll eventually figure things out.
Also i was thinking about something. Do we know of other ways to invite more people here? Even if the people haven't used imageboards or even give a damn about internet culture, memes or whatever. People who hate the state of the internet and might welcome a site like ours.
>>3532
I was thinking of an unnamed unofficial youtube that would contain the best of content, music, and whatever from 22chan and in the discription of the video is a link to 22chan.
It doesn't have to be youtube, it can be on odysee or whatever too.
>>3539
>rename
Here's some food for thought, "What's in a name?" Names have meaning. Names have value and symbolism.
Some history is also something to consider. 4chan was created as a western counterpart to 2channel. From what i understand "3chan" at the time was taken so moot chose 4chan as the name, also this fit well because of the lucky four leaf clover and its relation to yotsuba. 2chan was a spin off of "Amezou". 2Chan got its name from VHF Channel 2, used to connect to old vidya. Amezou was considered "channel one" and the spin off board 2chan is "channel 2"
What exactly should this site be called? Should we stray from the "Chan" naming scheme? As suggested by others i think that can work.
Our history ""might"" help with a proper name. We where created as no more then a high school experiment. Users came who where tired of shit going down on 4chan and came up with rules to "avoid cancer" Eventually shit went down yet again and we died and got revived and here we are now.
Another thing that might or might not help is our values. 22Chan bans porn, bans normalnigger content, low effort posts and attempts to cultivate quality content.
I'm just spitballing about the name thing to try and aid in a new name.
>>3542
>How much would have to change on the website
It depends on what does pop up and how much we are kind of forced to change. I totally see a bit of a chain reaction of changing one thing only to change of alter another.
>Do some of you even prefer to get rid of some of the culture that 22chan currently has as well?
To be fair sometimes it feels like making gatorgang/spidergang jokes is like beating a dead horse. "Culture" is a hard word to use because we kinda dont have one and most of the old stuff was forced by discuck or namefags and so on. Maybe its's something to really talk about further? I've always wondered what people think of the little characters we came up with from an outsiders perspective.
>otter-chan
Totally up to you man. I personally don't have any problems with you remaking stuff, i also think thats the way OC works on imageboards, things die and get replaced or remade all the time and only the most beloved, and funny stays. The stuff that feels important and matters. If it doesn't feel important or matters enough then try and make it so.

>>3534
>Rebranding from the 22chan name may be on the table as well.
I don't think this is a good idea at all. As what >>3547 said, a name has a meaning, and I want to delve into what the 22chan name implies and represents.
2chan is a spinoff of a different website, and is typically seen as a relic of the past, a nostalgic memory that predates 4chan. Then 4chan came and was a spinoff of the spinoff, creatively doubling the "2" in the name to signify its expansion, and yet difference. It's new, and it's twice as big as 2chan. Well, it became bigger, at least.
Now, 22chan is inspired by both of these names. The name 2chan carries memories of a more "high-quality" and innocent time, which is something that 22chan strives to emulate. The name 4chan implies expansion, scale, and improvements on a previous formula.
22chan is an amalgamation of both of these themes, including the 2chan name as a callback to the retro-internet goals and inspiration of the website, but doubles it, expanding upon those themes and goals.
What is 22chan? 22chan is a website that's nostalgic for the past, almost stricken with melancholia for it, but our ultimate stated goal is to take the quality and value of the past, and expand it, advance it, and make it better so we can benefit just the same as our historical ancestors did. The quote included in >>3543 is also important to note, because it exemplifies this "past-made-advanced" mindset flawlessly. Upholding the values and quality traits of the past with the benefits of modern hindsight and techniques.
The 22chan name is THE BEST name a website like this could have. It represents our core values, exemplifies our stated goals, is catchy and memorable, easy to type, and has a long history. As >>3547 states, "We where created as no more then a high school experiment." Humble beginnings, ultimately blossoming into a small yet valuable and memorable community. That's what the 22chan name means. We NEED the 22chan name. It's everything we stand for as a collective.

Regardless of the qualities and meaning of "22chan" as a name, it is deeply ingrained in the site's history, culture and identity. I'm not necessarily against changing it, but you'd better come up with something really good to make it worth it.
Additionally, I don't think a name change alone is the solution to not having enough activity. I don't think it's going to attract a lot of new people on its own at least.
>>3547
>Also i was thinking about something. Do we know of other ways to invite more people here? Even if the people haven't used imageboards or even give a damn about internet culture, memes or whatever. People who hate the state of the internet and might welcome a site like ours.
I think this is an interesting idea, but where do you find people like that?
>unnamed unofficial youtube that would contain the best of content, music, and whatever from 22chan and in the discription of the video is a link to 22chan
So the idea is that the 22chan name and link is not overly prominent, so it only attracts people who bother checking the description? Sounds alright

I'm fairly new here. I found this place a couple of months ago and have lurked around since then. I am also a zoomer who got into internet and vidya culture a little bit late because of my parents barring me from it when I was younger. I didn't experience 4chans 'good days' instead it was pretty close to this (I even started going to 4chan in 2018).

>In ~2018 the internet historian was making videos on 4chan history (habbo hotel raids) which got more than ten million views. More in general, 4chan had the reputation of being both terrible and brilliant, as well as the true creative force of the internet. This wasn't really the case in 2018 anymore, however, it was just three years after moot left and the whole site went to shit due to politics, so you could find plenty of nostalgic threads and encouragement to explore old 4chan culture. The reputation lured people in, then the disappointment over the absolute state of the boards pushed them towards altchans like 22chan.

I don't really post a lot because I feel like I usually have nothing interesting to add to the conversation (I don't post a lot anywhere because I am pretty asocial even on imageboards). I also don't have that great of an understanding of the site's 'culture' or 'history'. Nontheless this place feels special compared to all the other altchans I've visited.
>>3547
>Another thing that might or might not help is our values. 22Chan bans porn, bans normalnigger content, low effort posts and attempts to cultivate quality content.
I would argue that this is what makes 22chan unique. Or at least it's what makes me comeback and check this place out every now and then. It is a positive that it actually feels like people here try to be interesting. Changing these rules and especially allowing porn would change what makes this place special I think.

When it comes to the name I don't think that changing it will necessarily do anything. The name 22chan is indeed not really special but I can't remember the last time I actually looked at website because of it's name. I found 22chan cause someone mentioned it in a thread about altchans on 4chan and I checked it out cause I always like exploring different altchans

>>3532
>>3547
>>3553
So what content of which we have right now on the 22chan platform would be worth uploading on there? Anyone have some examples.

>>3567
Of course, everything uploaded to /flash/ as well as all of the custom music videos. Pretty much anything that's in video format.
Maybe then collages of music with art anons have posted? Anything that involves OC that's been posted here
乁(●𝄖●)∫

>>3568
>everything uploaded to /flash/
I'm pretty sure nothing on there is OC though so how does that make any sense? Not to mention there is a lot of stuff here that's just translations of other people's works so how do we go about approaching that and another thing being is that I'm unsure if everyone wants their stuff shared to a Youtube account if it was originally made for 22chan...
Maybe a thread dedicated to how we go about running this thing would help.

>>3555
>don't really post a lot because I feel like I usually have nothing interesting to add to the conversation (I don't post a lot anywhere because I am pretty asocial even on imageboards). I also don't have that great of an understanding of the site's 'culture' or 'history'. Nontheless this place feels special compared to all the other altchans I've visited.

all that stuff about altchan/4chan lore doesn't matter in my opinion, it can be fun to talk about but no one really NEEDS to know about that stuff to enjoy posting here. if anything for the little things like sewers culture its possible to learn by inference. also, how can this be avoided? to be clear i mean the "perma-lurker" status. i'm not trying to be a dick but i remember when old 22 was announced to die, a ton of perma-lurkers came out of the shadows and the site became super fucking active out of knowhere. i think being anti-social on an imageboard of all places is stupid in a sense its easier to express yourself here instead of irl.

>>3531
Just a browser here. Why don't you add a hr board like the one 4chan used to have, no porn or 'celebrities', just hr images on subjects you know something about. Superyachts, art and so on.

>>3531
Realistically, the only people interested in imageboards these days are the ones that are already familiar with them, and people who are used to the speed of large imageboards have a hard time getting used to the slower ones, which is why successful "altchans" are typically the result of a mass exodus. This is a good time to advertise on 4chan since they added that verification bullshit, I know most 4chan posters are awful but there are still good threads occasionally, and long time posters who miss the good times tend to gather in those threads, they're a good place to advertise on.

I honestly don't know if there's much hope to this place with the amount of people lurking refusing to post about basically anything as if the posts will magically appear by themselves. Just look at the recent visitor charts I think that's pretty telling that there's something wrong with the website that the lurkers don't want to interact with it despite there being so many of them. When the regulars finally lose motivation, this place is going to be nothing but an empty fucking void if it isn't already. I’ve put a lot of time into this place, and honestly, this is draining my motivation to keep creating. I can't wrap my head around how these proposed solutions are going to do anything since the place was indeed advertised by people on 4chan just somewhat recently but that clearly did fuck all... And if we go with the Youtube method what guarantees any of this will work and not just add more LURKERS that are going to watch the website die? The clock is ticking and I think the worst of it we will never find out what the problem was. I know my rant contributes basically nothing towards furthering this conversation but I am so fucking tired at this point.

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>>3578
As somebody who typically lurks but has a long history of big posts, I think the core issue with why people don't post as often as maybe they should is because this website encourages high quality discussion.
If you look at shitty places like 4chan, one of the reasons that that place is so populated is because it's easy to shit out random posts about stupid nonsense that accomplish nothing and say nothing. Here, by contrast, encourages high effort longposting with high wordcounts and organized paragraphs. It encourages the conduction of intellectual conversations and the vocalization of deep, worthwhile thoughts. Doing this is naturally more difficult than making stupid shitposts. The topics here are also more niche, and aren't universally enjoyable or understandable. How many people are autistic enough to write 4 gigantic posts just to review one game that maybe 2 people are going to read? Who actually wants to sit and write out a big essay about their dream that they had when it's probably going to get no replies?

I'm not trying to justify it or propose that we change the rules or culture, but that's WHY it's a problem. Because effortposting is hard.

I also want to say that part of the reason I never post, and I'm sure this applies to a lot of people, is because I just rarely have things to say, and when I do, I'm oftentimes too tired or just not invested enough to actually type out a well thought-out post about what I think. It's not for lack of effortposts, but rather the lack of REPLIES to effortposts
If we're going to look for a solution, I think we need to foster a larger reply/ review based culture. Insofar as anons who draw, make videos, write reviews, etc. will get feedback and more engagement on their effortposts. The more feedback, positive replies, and in-depth thoughts that people SHARE on creative or large posts, the more conversation can happen.

I've been paying attention to the monthly visitor counter since it went up, the data it produces suggests its definition of "unique visitor" isn't tailored for monthly metrics. It resets every day at some point: if someone checks up on the site every Sunday, they will be counted as four to five unique visitors. So, when the counter produces a number like 15,000 at the end of the month, it's not 15k sets of eyes. 'Just' 500 daily hits compounded 28-31 times. A lot, but not nearly as much as a data point like "15,000 unique monthly visitors" would suggest. This may be obvious to some, but I had to figure it out because the numbers weren't adding up for me.
tl;dr the counter is a measure of daily uniques, likely a byproduct of housekeeping's commitment against stockpiling user data. The monthly data point is far higher than a true count of unique monthly visitors.
(tbc)

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>>3579
Well, if this place had /pol, it would have to be a series of boards:
/BritE&C (British Empire & Commonwealth),
/Fra&R (France and French speaking regions),
/Bel&R (Belgium and Congo),
/Por&R (Portugal and Portuguese speaking regions),
/Spa&R (Spain and Spanish speaking regions), and
/EU (Europe).
Deliberately leaving out US pol, thereby avoiding the stuff by them, or deliberately targeting them, that makes 4Chan/pol so toxic (eg: 'Nazi discussion threads' that were copy/paste, until the war in Ukraine meant a need to 'prove' Putin was dying of a different ailment every month, and about to be overthrown in a coup every two months).

rdrii_us...PNG rdrii_usage.PNG

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tfii_usage.PNG tfii_usage.PNG

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>>3580
Addressing concerns about bots, there have been controversies lately in the Gamersphere regarding the impact of bots on reported player counts. A few methods have been used to get an idea of the ratio between human and botted players.
Here's the weekly usage stats of Red Dead Redemption 2 and Team Fortress 2, as reported by Steam. RDR2 is a single player game with few bots. TF2 is online multiplayer with an infamous bot problem. Even if it's allegedly gotten better lately, rest assured the bots are still there even if you don't see them in game. The lion's share are designed to idle at the title screen, but I digress. Point is, RDR2 vs TF2 usage metrics exemplify the usage patterns of bots and humans. TF2 rewards bots, RDR2 doesn't. Therefore, we can expect to find more bots in TF2 than RDR2.
See in RDR2 the daily cycle of peaks and valleys as players around the world wake up, go to sleep, get off work, etc etc etc. Even if the number of players goes up or down a bit (more on the weekend), the shape stays the same as sun and moon roll over population centers. This even applies when looking at long-term data across multiple years. There are spikes reflecting sales, holidays, and popularity surges, but this cycle is preserved. Also notably, the usage following these events reduces over time. People are introduced to the game, play it a bunch, then slowly return to routine. That's what humans look like.
In contrast to RDR2's tidal structure, TF2 is white noise. You can make out a daily cycle but it's a thin layer atop a constant hum of background activity. Bots don't sleep or go to work. They don't give a shit that peak usage time is currently somewhere over the Pacific. They just sit there and provide this constant base level of usage. Looking at the long-term data collected since 2009, TF2 traditionally becomes more popular during Halloween and Christmas content drops. This is also peak times for bots that try to milk out as many participation trophies and cosmetics as possible. The usage skyrockets every October 1st and plummets on January 1st as the events end, practically on the dot. That's not human.
If we had at least hourly data points for users currently viewing the site, we could use these same methods to identify bot activity. We'd only need to look for the human "tide" pattern and see how it compares to background usage. The current model of one data point reflecting hits per day offers little utility in this direction.
Hourly data points could be used to measure not only quantity of users but quality as well. This concludes my critique of 22chan's usage reporting.

>>3580
Everyone gets counted once every month unless you are, of course, using a VPN. There are 14,076 objects in the database right now with each corresponding to a single hashed IP address. The middleware checks whether the IP object exists before creating it whenever you visit any part of the page (SHA256 + salting). Each month, all of the objects are cleared so the count can start anew. If you're wondering about the jump in visitors from the 14th onwards it's because we fixed our robots.txt and are getting indexed by Google, so I would most likely assume some of those are scrapers, web crawlers, whatnot.

>>3582
How would you determine the human 'tide' pattern when bots come and go based on indexing schedules? With bots coming from people worldwide which are often running them at random intervals, there’s no predictable pattern to separate them from human traffic reliably.
>Looking at the long-term data collected since 2009, TF2 traditionally becomes more popular during Halloween and Christmas content drops.
And what incentive would we even have to lure bots here? They don’t engage or follow typical user patterns; they’re just all over the place. Without directly monitoring their site activity with javascript, there’s zero consistent pattern to set them apart from real visitors.

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>>3583
Not that I'm calling you a liar, but I'm not sure I buy that. If every user got counted once a month, I'd expect to see two things from two different usage cases: the start of the month would be higher, representing returning users who know about 22chan. This would be followed by a flattening into general traffic of users who don't know about 22chan. What I would not expect to see is a largely straight line.
I see two potential explanations. The first is that there's some loophole or oversight in the execution. If you're certain that's not the case, that leaves the second option of human usage being drowned out by an overwhelming quantity of bots. That would really, really suck and make the data pretty useless for tracking humans.
Could be I'm just a little retard, but do you see what I mean?

>>3585
I don’t think 22chan has a big enough loyal audience for that kind of traffic pattern to show up. Without an active user base, there’s no obvious reason for people to specifically return at the start of each month, especially if they aren’t posting regularly anyway. The total poster IP count for the entire month is less than 25 people or something (less if you count CP posters probably). With all the other imageboards out there, who knows which ones they’re prioritizing over 22chan for those random check-ins. The site also gets advertised at random intervals, so any spikes we see are more likely from that than from returning users.

I think regarding the CP spam bots it would be worth checking out this thread if you haven't yet: https://trashchan.xyz/meta/thread/374.html

>>3579
> I think the core issue with why people don't post as often as maybe they should is because this website encourages high quality discussion.
Maybe I am misunderstanding but isn't that why /sewers/ exists though? I thought its always been known as the place that's "more random than /b/" where you don't have to put as much effort into a post as you would on the other boards, and it can basically be about anything. Although looking at /sewers/ now a lot of the posts are either too high quality or too low quality nonsense so maybe we need a new board that can compromise between the two...
>>3581
I wonder if it would really need to be that many new boards when you have something like the tagging system that helps you clearly separate a thread from its board. As an example with this thread: https://22chan.org/b/306/ Although it’s part of the /b/ board, you can click the "/x/" tag to bring up all the threads that collectively form /x/ on 22chan.

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>>3589
>Maybe I am misunderstanding but isn't that why /sewers/ exists though?
Something I touched on but didn't talk about at length was the habits of 22chan posters to read effortposts, but not reply to them. In my post, I said
>How many people are autistic enough to write 4 gigantic posts just to review one game that maybe 2 people are going to read?
And that applies to almost every effortpost. Go and look at the front pages of the site-- look at how many threads are just one guy posting about his hobby, or the games he likes. The Nico Nico Douga thread is likely just one or two anons posting regularly about that singular topic, with virtually nobody else partaking. The Metal Slug thread is much the same. Any and all hobby or topic-driven threads are typically just populated by the same dudes taking clips of their games or making posts about movies or whatever. The only threads that get regular replies are ones about emotional wellbeing and venting, because those threads don't necessitate high quality effortposts.
Look at the game review thread-- almost all of the reviews in that thread are comically large. Multiple posts per game, for multiple games, all posted in one or two days. It's a ridiculous amount of stuff to read. How many replies did some of those reviews get? Two? Three, maybe? What is the content of those replies? Typically just empty "this is good anon" type of posts, and one or two that actually share real thoughts.
How is that going to motivate anons to make more effortposts?
My point is that effortposts are almost exclusive to autistic hobbyists and thread starters, but those effortposts don't get effortpost replies. There's no conversation happening between effortposts, only effortposts being made with no engagement or interaction between posters.
I believe that if we, as a community, were to make a larger effort to make effortpost replies, and to engage in actual discussion about these sorts of things, that anons who DO make regular effortposts will be much more encouraged to continue doing so, because they know that when they post, it won't just be dead water.
As I said, it's not for lack of effortposts that this site is dying, it's lack of high quality replies to effortposts. That's the core issue, and that's what we need to fix, regardless of if there's bot spam in the site metrics.

>>3589
/sewers/ isn't for low quality discussion, thats the mistake the old /trash/ board had. it's for funposting and nonsense discussion. any low effort posts and discussions strip away why sewers exists in the first place.

>>3591
I think you’ve nailed the issue here but honestly even recognizing it, I’m at a loss for how to actually fix it. I read through almost every post on 22chan, but it’s tough to figure out what counts as a "high quality" reply when I don’t have much interesting to add especially when there aren’t really any openings or hints about what to say (if that makes sense). another thing is, it seems like there are a lot of different "niches" on 22chan, but aside from places like /yu/, there’s not much overlap between them. That’s probably why we mostly end up with anons just talking to themselves in their threads. I’ll also admit there have been times when I’ve put effort into a post, didn’t get any replies, and watched it fall off the bump order. I decided to same-fag a short reply in order to get it on the top of the bump order in the hopes of someone taking the time to reply to it but it never happened so It felt kind of stupid realizing I was basically talking to myself.

>>3589
is it impossible to go with the old /sewers/ board rule and delete normal discussion, and for threads that fit on like /b/ or /cre8/ get moved and if somehow they are of super low quality or don't fit on 22chan then delete.
>>3591
i feel like its fine unless this somehow was the OP of an actual thread. both seem like legit responces to the situation. i don't think people need to sweat effort posting too much, they don't need to write a collage thesis unless that's what they seriously enjoy. i think the problem is when someone is lazy and makes a thread like "i hate niggers lol" or "how do i feel about (insert thing)" or a post like "lol i take him to da bar" is when shit gets out of hand. i think we all know when a typical 4chan thread / post is made and if we shoul take action to get it removed. making a new board to somehow fix "low effort posts" is going to add bloat and confuse new posters like who in there right mind would think "ah yes, i will make 1 funpost on sewers, 1 effort post on /b/ and 1 post on /b2/ (for low effort posts) imagine the new person making perceived "low effort" post on /b/ and getting warned/banned... wouldn't that be strange?
>>3572
i think someone new might also be confused because necroposting doesn't exist and they can bump a thread no matter how old without any real problems being had, especially because threads don't expire unless they reach the large bump limit or they are bumped off the board by new threads.

>>3591
if we see "this is good" type of post i think we should ask them to elaborate as to why they feel that way to try and milk a response from them to encourage a quality reponse.

>>3591
The problem is that unless you share the interest in the niche, it can be difficult to come up with a reply to an effortpost that wasn't trivial.

In the first place, if someone gets into a niche it's because of their specific personal preferences, and for someone with different preferences it can be unappealing to dive deeply into that niche.

For example, I remember an anon who was into gunsync videos. I think the edits he posted were pretty cool. But I'm not curious enough to watch dozens of gunsync videos on youtube or dive into what type of techniques and gun sounds are used etc. If I don't do that, then I will be ignorant on the subject and incapable of replying with anything but: "hey, nice video!". Only someone who shares the interest in gunsync would be able to appreciate the details of it and say something worthwhile.

Despite this, I like that people have niche interests here. It comes across as much more genuine than being into the latest fad.

Originally, part of the idea behind the 22chan multimedia club was that 22channers would watch stuff together and then discuss it or use it for memes and stuff. This way there would be a common ground, something to talk about that everyone can contribute to. That didn't work; a few anons watched stuff together but the whole discussion part never took off.

If we were to try and give this idea another shot, then maybe we could have a different system:
1. People submit movies/games/books/anything with an explanation as to why they are worth diving into
2. One work is selected in a poll
3. A month is given for everyone to watch/read/play it
4. The media is discussed in the thread, and everyone shares their opinions

Another idea I had in my head was that maybe people who are really into something could try their best to present it to people who know nothing of it. They'd try to "sell" their interest, explaining why they think it's awesome and share the coolest stuff that's come out of it. So the idea is to have a presentation targeted specifically at people outside the niche.

To be fair, I think people have already been doing some of this. So maybe you are right and what we really need more of is not effort posting but effort lurking. High quality replies.

>>3619
what i have been doing (and sometimes failing) is writing down what thing people like, and check it out and talk about it, like if someone posts an anime or mentions a book. i read the king in yellow because someone mentioned it. i think effort lurking is possible as so long as the person is interested in the subject matter and even if not sometimes not liking a thing can lead to interesting conversations.

>>3620
What all do you have written down?

>>3619
I really like the idea of the new system for the /mmc/ especially if in the discussions anons are encouraged to record and share parts that they like about the thing they watched or played. A single month also seems like plenty of time to watch or play a thing although say if it's like a movie that's 2 hours maybe half a month or even less?

>>3619
If you decide to remake the /mmc/ thread under these new rules let us know if you want to explicitly have a custom polling system implemented or if you're just gonna use Strawpoll for the time being. One advantage I can think of a custom one being is that you could decide whether you want ips who posted before on 22chan to vote which would exclude all of the lurkers (which I don't know if that's a good idea.) but prevent people from using VPNs to fake votes.

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>>3591
I think that expecting anons to constantly make "effortposts" is antithetical to the way conversation flows and may be intimidating to anyone who lurks here which would be counterproductive to the goal of raising poster activity, this isn't to say that we should allow the cultural integrity and identity of this site to get swept away in a tidal wave of infinite soynigger spam and baitposts but if we're to have an increase in posts, we'll need to strike a balance between shitposts/ritualposts and effortposts whilst cracking down on posts that are made out of contempt for our site culture.

>>3621
your mother

I wrote down stuff like when i see a name of a thing someone enjoys like a book, or a subject of a thread, really anything no matter the genre or format.

I was thinking what if we unlocked https://22chan.org/pol/ but word-filtered the hell out of it? Like we'd make a thread before unlocking the board where users will suggest any political type terms that get changed to another word (e.g. jew -> otter, jews -> ottergang, anti-semite -> anti-mustelid) basically word filter every single political figure and term to something stupid that only 22chan users could understand and see what culture the board develops. Although maybe this would this be too similar to /sewers/ but I still think this would be funny as fuck and keep normal niggers out.

>>3627
i'd rename it from pol to something else

>>3627
Would adding more places for anons to talk really bolster discussion though? If I recall correctly, one of the reasons /pol/ was removed was because it just spread us all out too thin. It wouldn't increase the number of good posts, just spread them out more, which isn't precisely what we're looking for.

>>3624
That's reasonable, but what do you think can be done to increase casual conversation?
>>3623
>custom polling system implemented
I think that's not a bad idea for a feature regardless of mmc. It'd be nice to have some "end date" at which point the poll freezes. I wouldn't exclude lurkers unless botting gets really bad
>>3622
Sure, makes sense. I think we should have a minimum of one or two weeks though for people who don't check on 22chan every day. Maybe we should discuss the rules more in detail in >>324

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>>3589
>tagging system
I was thinking two things at once:
- grow discussion between people who have the most in common (I don't know much about French politics, for example, but I imagine French speakers would have intense discussions now that Russian Orthodoxy is replacing Catholicism in parts of Africa, as it gives followers more freedom, and of course, the Russian State is tagging along), and;
- avoid the sewer of Nazi/Communist/whatever spyops directed so much at yanks, by specifically leaving out US politics. Really, it's not healthy.

Pic is what people tell each other to cope, but why need to cope in the first place?

if we had to add a pol i would say to widen the subject matter to history, the humanities, philosophy and so on to widen the topic matter. it would make it harder to associate it with 4chan's pol and would widen the range of threads to expect then just political threads.
the other way of doing things is just waking up the joke pol board and keeping it that way, with a sense of humor and in a way to keep the same tone it had during april fools. that would be fun although just the title of /pol/ alone attracts retards who might not understand our reasoning. also, how would it be kept that way? i mean, april fools /pol/?
>>3627
i agree with the wordfilter, it's why i liked the old one. personally i thought it was endearing.
>>3632
>removed because spread too thin
it's hard for me to explain but in a way that isn't exactly the case. we had two other boards that also should have been removed way early on if that was actually the problem at hand. we had a science and math board that someone mentioned was confusing because both topics should have been seperated, either way it wasn't posted on at all. we had a /k/ and literally no one posted on that board too. we where already spread a tad bit thin as is if that was the case. the original problem was we where hosted by a """german""" hosting provider, and we had an unmoderated /pol/ board, (with copypasted board rules from 4chan that wasn't even used) and the /pol/ board was made active by a few people who was using the board for ""activism"" for one thing. for the other they rubbed a few people, userbase or otherwise. (especially the userbase) speaking of the userbase there was already complaints on /sg/ in the past that /pol/ is gay with maybe a few wanting our /pol/ to be edgier, since the majority didn't really shitfling, or wasn't even political in the first place. it was an inactive board untill up to the point where the """activists""" showed up.
i can imagine it would be easy for someone who doesn't like us to take advantage of us at the wrong time and report the board to the hosting provider for having content germany doesn't enjoy, after all the board was up for since 22chan was born and no one had a problem until that time. if that was the case then the hosting provider would have given an ultimatum: delete it or we delete you, and if that was the case then, bye bye /pol/.
>>3635
how exactly will we fill the void of american posters that do post on 22chan, and are active? how would american posters adapt to cutting out american politics? how would it be moderated, like if someone posts about they are a japanese anon, and how Matthew C. Perry had no right to westernize japan, would that be considered mentioning american politics, and is banworthy? or lets say a british anon makes a thread making fun of america, would that be banworthy? is it cutting out america in general or only america circa 2016? also what if other people are upset about other countries, like if ukraine anons want russians excluded. is it only diffrent with america?
as an american trust me when i say that america sucks really fucking bad to the point where sometimes it really does poison the well to even mention the name of "america" but i don't exactly see how filtering america will work.

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>>3636
>i don't exactly see how filtering america will work.
I don't either now you put it that way. Even if you had a sticky: "Keep to the subject", some trouble maker will try to shift the dialog, drive people away or post content to try having it banned for not being about the bee in their bonnet.

It will take a moderator, but pic explains the problem of running it.

>>3636
>although just the title of /pol/ alone attracts retards who might not understand our reasoning. also, how would it be kept that way? i mean, april fools /pol/?
If someone tried to make a very serious post on /pol/ the word filters would make their entire post look like complete nonsense. As an example if someone tried to talk about Trump and the current election if they mention words such as Trump, Elections, Rigged, United Stated, Voters, etc. If those words are replaced with something to do with the 22chan universe as an example it's like they're making a fun post on /sewers/ unintentionally. There's actually an example of this someone tried to make from a crossboard spam post that was previously posted on 22chan >>>/sewers/864/
>i can imagine it would be easy for someone who doesn't like us to take advantage of us at the wrong time and report the board to the hosting provider for having content germany doesn't enjoy
Now that we are located in the Netherlands I think we have a lot more options than previously which is probably why the newer word filters were never implemented globally or anywhere for that matter since there was no reason to censor anything.
Also, I agree, any way that we try to implement a serious political board it's going to bite us in the ass in the long run as activists are trying to use any place on the internet even devoid of any discussion to make sure that the same sentiment appears everywhere no matter where people go to. It's honestly a bad idea no matter how you look at it in this day and age and always attracts the wrong crowd as far as to even bring people who would try to avoid the word filters on our april fools /pol/ on purpose as long as they manage to get the message out. it's a sad reality that the internet isn't run by hobbyist anymore but run by corporations who have a wide range of tools at their disposal which only ever grow in their favor.

>>3619
how would the video aspect work this time around? would we have to use a sevice like cytube? something self hosted? or manual like a book club type of thing? also i would suggest a limit for a size of thing, since some retard suggested one piece as an exampld and i can say its pretty fucking long, too fucking long to even be useful for the /mmc/.
>>3622
i can attest that its possible to watch something seperately, and catch up if need be. my schedule did not align with the set time, so i missed out on the cytube stream aspect so i would then catch up by watching whatever online so i could contribute to the thread. i had enjoyed all of the suggested shows so i was pretty much deticated to catching up without really feeling like i had to slog through trash for the sake of the project. i still look back at the anime i watched fondly like f-zero and ergo proxy. also for something two hours long another thing that can be done is if you do the standard book club thing, you can break it apart into bite size chunks like 30 mins per week as an example.
>>3623
how would you exclude lurkers? like lets say i dont lurk 22 but post regularly but clean my cache and have like a dynamic IP, wouldn't that look like i'm a lurker or something from my end?
>>3634
uh i think you fucked up with the link to the post, i'm not sure if you wanted to really reply to >>324 lol

>>3642
>how would the video aspect work this time around?
Maybe just let people watch stuff independently whenever they want? Though I guess there's no harm if some anons watch it together
>limit for a size of thing
Of course, since we're going to have deadlines to finish, the time required should be estimated beforehand
>you fucked up with the link to the post
Indeed, I meant >>>/meta/324 lol

How about a film discussion board? I can recommend:

https://www.dailymotion.com/search/australian%20movies/videos?duration=mins_30_60

https://archive.org/details/moviesandfilms?noscript=true

https://archive.org/details/moviesandfilms?noscript=true

for old black and whites, but archive.org is no longer running.

Any other suggestions?

>>3653
Correction, archive.org is back up!

>>3653
oh i have a bunch of movie suggestions, although isn't it better to make a thread for suggestions then use this one?

>>3684
i'm stupid, i misread the post, i assumed that he was talking about the media club. there's a thread for film and tv discussion on /b/ though.

>>3533
The OC thing is fine and dandy but for a person who makes content, it might be frustrating for them to make content without any turnout infact they might get burnt out of making things, this goes the same way for the people who make long ass effort posts. This is where >>3619 comes in, finding similar interests and talking casually about stuff i think will do good.
>>3574
There's always going to be people who will be frustrated with 4chan and want a board like ours to post on, so it's something to watch out for no matter what. Although in my case i've been using find.4chan.org damn near hour by hour and searching for various terms and looking for threads with no real results yet, Also i kind of missed out on some threads and posts because i was busy doing irl shit which sucks hard.

I've been exploring discussions on similar topics elsewhere, and it seems like there's a noticeable trend where people are increasingly gravitating toward niche spaces tailored to their specific interests or hobbies (As an example there are entire imageboards only dedicated to discussing touhou, rozenmaiden, trains, mecha, etc.), while general boards are becoming less appealing. It makes me wonder if 22chan might benefit from experimenting with dedicated niche or hobby-specific boards, separate from the general ones. The energy and discussions from these niche boards could then trickle back into the general boards. Maybe this approach could backfire and drag the site down further in activity, though I find that unlikely. Either way, I don't see any harm in giving it a shot.

>>3727
Hey if worse comes to worse boards can be deleted

>>3727
I guess just one example as an supporting argument I advertised 22chan here previously: https://4-ch.net/music/kareha.pl/1666316613/l50 because it pretty much seemed as though 22chan has the perfect features for what the guy was describing and although we do have a /mu/ for where such a thread could be made it seems there's more of an demand for an entire board where .mp3 files could be dumped to. The only problem being in that case that it would probably eat up a fuck-ton of space in a very short period of time, and I don't remember any staff announcement on how much space the server has.

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>>3727
>>3730
Does anyone have any idea which ones are in demand right now? I'm pretty sure stuff like Touhou has been overdone pretty much everywhere now. Maybe we need a separate thread to discuss this and probably not this one >>>/meta/299/#299 since this would probably be for more general boards. It would probably also make more sense to make them exempt from some rules from the website to make them more casual and easy-going since as mentioned something like the .mp3 board would probably be void of discussion? and I am also thinking that if the number of these niche boards grow it would probably make sense to make a separate /all/ for them (or some of them) from the general boards although maybe that's cutting them off to much from the website?

>>3730
I really like the idea of something like this just imagine /mp3/ - MPEG Audio Layer-3 and only allowed formats for this board would be audio files so no images or videos. If anyone wants any serious conversation maybe make a sticky telling them that there is a dedicated thread on /mu/ where discussion should take place through cross-board quoting or something.

The site could really use a proper posting guide. Something central, stickied, and always visible, updated regularly by the community. A resource to help people improve their posts, like >>>/cre8/1 but broader and not just another thread that gets buried over time. This directory could include practical stuff like links to tools (e.g., ffmpeg guides, simple video editing software) or maybe even ideas on how to better engage with posts. The goal also shouldn't be to overwhelm with a million options like just list the best tools and advice to make things easier. For example we have a lot of users talking about anime, tv, or movies, but barely anyone posts clips to back up what they’re saying. It makes sense though because going through a movie to find a specific scene and then figuring out how to trim and encode it is pretty tedious. But there’s probably software out there that makes this easier, like tools that let you record clips as you’re watching. Maybe this stuff is obvious to some people but honestly I only found out about "Handbrake" the other day, and it made me wonder how many other tools like that exist like things that simplify the process for people who don’t already know the workflow. Maybe this isn't a good idea at all because I'm pretty tired right now as of writing this but think of it the same as a video game tutorial.